Post from Raban on actions...

From: J Hooten <jhooten@binary.net>
To: PBEM List <pnpgm@abroere.xs4all.nl> References: <7.0.1.0.0.20090130003828.009fdeb0@cybermax.net> In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20090130003828.009fdeb0@cybermax.net> X-XS4ALL-DNSBL-Checked: mxdrop138.xs4all.nl checked 71.74.56.125 against DNS
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Subject: Re: [pnpgm] Game Update #109 - File #606 - Party heads down X-BeenThere: pnpgm@abroere.xs4all.nl

                                                                        
<That is a problem with PnP treasures, the wide variations in price for
items. Thus value for share depends on where you could sell it. But is
the Armor really worth 7500? PnP Plate is expensive to start with because
it takes a long time to make, now consider that a mage is supposed to make
that himself. What is that time worth? Then its elven making it rarer etc.
So yup its damn expensive, so much so who could afford it. And that is the
problem, its unlikely you will find a buyer on the world! Maybe extraplaner
elvish royals could afford it? And adventure all its own. I still think
some rough value needs to be placed on it and based on what it could be
sold for if we tried. But that would be much lower. Is that really fair?
Someone could take it to resell elsewhere for a huge profit. But thats
true for everything if someone wants to play merchant to that extreme.
Other games assume you can get 25%-50% of sell price in a reasonable
amount of time, so that is a fair price in general. Cash is cash, magic
worth what it could sell for in a short time. But without much effort the
maximum value cannot be gotten on much of the items and thus the armor is
the major item. So for this extreme case its very hard to be fair. I would
let him have the item and owe some reasonable amount for it, or use it til
it could be sold. BUT do not forget possession of the armor could cause
major conflict with elves or others for its extreme rarity. And a non elf
wearing it could have political problems. It could even be a cultural '
treasure' for even more problems. So once more an Alfar seems the only
one who should wear it and trying to sell it could be a problem... A GM
could turn that into the next adventure if we are not careful. No matter
how its handled it can cause trouble which is why this effects play.
Personally I always thought plate cost way too much in the system. You
can hire it made far cheaper than it costs and Dwarf or Elf make should
not be worth 40 or 60 times just like magic is not worth 100 times. You
can hire a 20th level mage to make plate cheaper than buying it normally and
have enchanted?
So yes the elf plate is worth a few hundred but not many thousand gold
unless elves would need to be forced to make it or other difficulty and
then it would carry a stigmata for more troubles. But not my world so
cant say true economics and political pricing. I personally think items
should be valued based on time and material costs and mana is a material
for this. The mages time is worth so much and his mana is worth some
factor based on Mel in general and maybe more based on recovery time.
Heavy mana use could take a long time to get back. The other guides
(Mel+El)*something does this a little. Mel silver per mana could be
close? Maybe a bit more than that, needs some test items for comparisons.
Maybe someone will run some tests for approx item price versus mana
needed to make and see.>

<Sorry should not have wandered so far off course. In summary, if
Armor was not so super high value then its not such a big deal. Since
most magic I have seen priced in our current game were fairly low
priced, that seems more likely. Then the other game effects make the
item worth keeping in the party and used with Arawn owing some future
cash for it and not crippling amounts. BUT even if it is high priced
it may make little difference if no one can buy it since it is thus
worthless! LOL or was that priceless? Same effect. So the result is
nearly the same with all methods, its best if he keeps it but how much
should he owe?
Thats what the vote will really determine as I see it.>

<So overall it becomes more important to determine what is a fair
price/value for items to use in the shares or it all falls apart.
Fair sell value should be what can be gotten in a reasonable time
trying to sell it. If its hard to sell then that value will drop.
If someone wants to purchase a hard to sell item for the discount and
try to sell it themselves that is fair for that reason. They are short
cash for some time as its tied up and thus they have less other
equipment etc.
Eventually they will make a profit but was it worth the delay? Yes
player merchants can make a fortune but so do the ones actively
spending time doing other work instead of searching for a buyer. It
may all balance out anyway. And this valuation is determined inside
the party in actuality. The mages would have a rough idea on magic
item values, other people may know other items. For us the GM is doing
that work since we do not know his rules on pricing. But you get the
idea. Its always a gamble, you may end up selling for a loss when
hoarding items and suddenly needing cash. The next problem is those
items you cant price accurately. Art and rare books vary a lot, well
many things do in PnP.
If the party guesses wrong and someone takes the item the gamble could
be quite a lot. This is another GM ruling on your skill identifying
the items and your previous history of such. If you do not know,
someone will be surprised. A shrewd buyer may rob you blind more than
once before you find out. Thats where those contacts come in handy,
finding more honest buyers. If people do not want to RP so much
normally behind the scenes things then should they get to do so for
those other items?
Its a complex problem overall. Which to me means, if the share method
is too hard to figure then it may not be worth using in this system.
Just try to balance it out in play somehow.>

<Apologies for the long post, hope it helps? Maybe the GM will shoot
me instead....>



<Raban will go with where he is needed. If he ended up on the ground
then he will stay there to help out. Frema may not be able to teleport
with him and Raban knows that since there were issues with an expert
teleporter. So even though he would like to stay with her it may not
be doable.>



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